Hilfe beim Ariane BBJ V3 Problem
 

Jetzt sollten wir ein Mal das Forum auch dazu benutzen, wozu es auch gedacht ist. Sich gegenseitig helfen, an statt aufeinander „rum-zu hacken“. Und bitte hier kein „Anti-Ariane-Pro-PMDG“ Geschrei und Beleidigungen. Ich habe es satt.
Worum geht es?

Seit einigen Wochen ist die Ariane BBJ V3 auf dem Markt. Ein wirklich gutes Flugzeug, „wenn“ man es per Hand fliegt und „wenn“ man Befehle vom ATC befolgt, was steigen & Sinken betrifft. Das die ARIANE-Hersteller wieder voll grob ins Fettnäpfchen getreten sind mit ihrem uralt FMC, habe ich an anderer Stelle ja berichtet.
Das muss auch die Folge gewesen sein, dass kaum Einer die BBJ V3 gekauft hat und somit wie ich heute erfahren habe, sich auch keiner drüber beschwerte. Außer der Janicki. Ich möchte ein gutes Flugzeug haben und nicht etwas hingeworfen haben, was im Endeffekt nicht gut funktioniert.
Deshalb bin ich den Herstellern auf die Füße getreten, habe mich echt gezofft. Und viele E-Mails gingen hin & her. Ich habe denen die Fehler geschrieben und die bezweifelten das. Ich bekam Service Pack1, was nix half, und gestern durfte ich SP2 testen, mit den angeblichen Verbesserungen.
Also habe ich getestet und wieder genug „bekannte“ Fehler gefunden.
Jetzt geht es da drum, dass die BBJ V3:
Im FMC anzeigt, dass bis zum T/D noch 26 NM sind. Aber das Display mit der roten Linie sagt es sind noch 42 NM….. das FMC zählt rückwärts und wenn das FMC bei 0 NM bis T/D angekommen ist… beleiben auf dem Display bei der grünen T/D Marke noch satte 15 NM übrig. Das FMC zeigt mir nun an: 86NM bis T/D was auch so lange auf 86 bleibt, bis der Grüne Marker im Display das Flugzeug erreicht hat. Dann beginnt der Sinkflug.

Sinkt das Flugzeug dann, sinkt es unkontrolliert. Der letzte Punkt vor der Landebahn soll 7250 ft haben. Wenn ich nix mache, also die BBJ V3 sinken lasse im LNAV/VNAV Modus…ist die am letzten Wegpunkt, statt bei 7250, schon bei 4100 ft angekommen.
Hier die Frage:
Muss eine 737 NG die Höhen im FMC einhalten oder nicht?
Die Landung ist dann heftig. Die BBJ V3 verfolgt das ILS gut, setzt punktgenau auf und trotz Abreak und Tempo 139 kt und 12% Treibstoff, setzt das Flugzeug auf, Kein A/T schaltet aus, der AP bleibt drinnen und das Flugzeug hebt sofort wieder ab.
Frage dazu:
Ist das im realen auch so?
Ich meine nicht damit, was uns PSS und PMDG da so alles nette Sachen vorzaubert, was nebenbei wenigstens funktioniert. Die Frage ist nun:
Wie ist das bei einer realen Boeing. Schalten die Piloten das A/T aus und den AP sobald das Flugzeug aufsetzt, und drücken die das Steuerhorn nach vorne, das die nicht gleich wieder abhebt?


Ich denke, dass PMDG und PSS und Usern das Leben sehr leicht macht, aber irgendwie denke ich, dass es Sicherheitssysteme sind, die im normalen Flugzeug auch funktionieren sollten. Starker Nebel oder andere Umstände…..
Wenn mir die Ariane Leute kommen mit Wind der Einfluss hat und Beladung… also ich habe bei „schönen Wetter“ getestet und Beladung fast Null. Kann also nicht sein.
Egal wie, jedenfalls habe ich versucht denen zu erklären, das der SP2 auch nix verändert hat. Das gilt auch für die Temporeduzierung beim Sinkflug, bei erreichen der FL100. Die BBJ V3 beginnt erst ab dieser Marke das Tempo zu reduzieren und hat dann bei 7800 ft die nötigen 250kt erreicht. Ist das im realen so? Oder muss das anders sein?

Ich habe das so viel geschrieben und lasse nicht locker. Die letzte E-Mail, dort kam dann eine Antwort zurück, die mein Englisch übersteigt. Ich reklamierte die oben genannten Fehler und nun kommen Texte zurück, die mir nix sagen. Entweder die wollen sich sauber rausreden….. oder die begründen sachlich, warum der Vogel sich so verhält.

Und nun bitte ich Euch, nicht auf das Thema Ariane / Janicki / Doof / habe ich gewusst / nicht kaufen usw. zu verzichten, lest Euch die letzte E-Mail durch. Es ist ein MIX zwischen meinen Fragen und deren Antworten. Und wenn Ihr Zeit habt, bitte schreibt, was die nun von mir wollen! Ich lass da nicht locker und vielleicht bekommen wir es gemeinsam hin, dass ich denen eine gute Antwort senden kann.

Bemerkung:
Natürlich habe die Ariane Macher einige gute Effekte nun gemacht. Irrtümlich erhofft in der Beobachter Sicht, sieht man den Wing-Flex nun in der Tastenkombination. Und das in beeindruckender Weise. Was heißt, dass sich die Flügel der BBJ V3 Bewegen und je nach Tempo, Kurvenlage oder Untergrund bewegen. Die Linien im VC sind nun Stufenfrei, was heißt, dass ein Fenster oder eine Sicht jetzt nun ohne „Stufen“ gerade Linien sehen kann. Genau das Selbe gilt für Fenster-Umrahmungen. Welche völlig neu ohne Zacken zu sehen sind. Die Ariane BBJ V3 ist nicht schlecht, korrigiert ist die fehlerhafte Registrierung und das Thema 2D- Panel ist vergesse mit der 1.3 EyeView, was unproblematische Blickpunkte bereitstellt. (inklusive 2D Panel). Das VC ist immer noch im realen Modus in der Anzeige mit dem Ruckeln bestückt, aber ein Links-Klick auf dem Display zaubern eine ruckelfreie Anzeige hervor.

Nochmalig….. bitte keine Kommentar, den wie die Fronten verhärtet sind, ist bekannt. Hier versucht man nur, den „nicht-müde-werdenden“ Janicki, eine Antwort bereit zu stellen, die ich den Ariane-Leuten senden kann. Denn bisher habe ich keinen Plan, was ich darauf antworten kann. Denn ich kann geschweige deren technisches Englisch lesen noch verstehen. Und noch weniger antworten!

Also würde ein guter Hinweis in „Englisch“ sein, ohne dass man mich verarscht! Damit ich es als E-Mail Antwort kopieren kann, aber auch deutsche Antworten, damit man versteht, was es für Unterschiede es gibt zwischen PMDG / PSS & Ariane sind hier herzlich willkommen.

Danke vorab
Sagt Jörg

Good Day Jorg
Thank the SP2 for the BBJ V3.
I don't have any good news. Unfortunately.
Let's begin with the single good message:
The BBJ V3 keeps an eye on the speed exactly until FL100. That is new and very good! No more than 250kt under FL100. This solved your well.
You must set speed as Captain. It is important to note this.
Now the bad news:
The button to putting in "Autobreak" is incorrectly written on. RTO and ZERO is exchanged. RTO is at the very bottom!
This is no problem - we will correct it.

To sink with the BBJ:
I did many flights.
Have happened following at all flights:
The point T/D shows the 20NM in the FMC as far as to the T/D is. In the Display of the BBJ on the red line, however, the T/D is later 15 NM. Therefore still 35NM.
In the FMC the distance between the T/D always less. 7 NM, 6 NM, then 1 NM and in the Display of the VC however still 15 NM. If the value T/D is ZERO in the FMC, erscheit immediately " T/D = 86NM" (???)
No. You must make sure that management for T/D is made by your adjustment of the range. Also you must make sure that 'TIME ERROR TOLERANCE' page is adjusted, that also your command of speed vs altitude for range is adjusted by using ECON or PERF values.

In common flight, it is expected that the aircraft will reach predicted T/D with no problem. But with wind factors and changing weather bugs in FS it is not able to be calculated so easily. The stronger that the headwind component is, for example, the higher value you will have in the cruise max requirement and equal opposites. An example is that a 100kt headwind will increase cruise speed M.01. A 100 kt tailwind will increase speed however only to M 0.06. The division of wind changes cannot be assessed on the path to T/D and during descent. There is some work to be made here!

ECON reads wind component and LRC does not read it! ECON with correct CI selected will approxiamate the values in LRC. It may be more fuel efficient to fly this but it will show differences DEPENDING on the wind factors. In FS wind is VARIABLE but it is not RELIABLE. Many pilots complain about this. In X Plane it is more reliable. But in FSX? Still it is a bug!!! How can we code to something so variable? Its not possible so easy.

The MCP and the FMC for the BBJ and 900ER are the same code! There is little difference Jorg. So adjustments are a thing that happens because of flight and not because of the code.

But maybe you like the FMC of the 900ER? Maybe you like the flight modes or values? Its better for you? Please tell me your happiness in this.

But for now it is not possible to correct for 10.6 FMC version. We would be very wrong t do this. Why? Because we must look FORWARD and work toward 10.7. Here:

"At long last FMC update 10.7 is available and hopefully we can start using VNAV with confidence again! Here is a list of its features as listed in SB-737-34-1918, 27 March 2007. Remember some of these features are optional and may not reflect the configuration of your airline.

Basic Changes: 1. Fly-by Hold Entries and Exits
Version U10.7 of the FMC OPS calculates fly-by hold entries and exits that are available when the path geometry is permitted. Before U10.7, only fly over entries and exits were calculated. When the hold pattern is set, the airplane will over-fly the fix on all circuits of the holding pattern until it exits. Fly-by hold entry and exit gives better Required Navigation Performance (RNP) in U10.7. The airplane can stay on the holding side of the hold course.

2. Lateral Steering Overshoot EnhancementsOperators sent reports of "S-turns" that were controlled by the Lateral Navigation (LNAV) without pilot input. This occurs at airspeeds of less than 200 knots groundspeed when trying to lock on and hold the lateral path. Changes to the LNAV control laws in FMC U10.7 will make it more stable at low speeds. The output in U10.7 for LNAV roll command makes better changes between path segments.

3. UNABLE REQD NAV PERF-RNP Message Revision
FMC U10.7 includes two changes to the UNABLE REQD NAV PERF-RNP message. First, the message will be a caution level for all flight phases. As a result, the UNABLE REQD NAV PERF-RNP message will show on the Navigation Display (ND) when the Actual Navigation Performance (ANP) is more than the RNP.Second, FMC version U10.7 changes the default RNP alert times. FMC U10.7 also lets the OPC software make changes to the RNP alert times.

4. Vertical Deviation Displayed in all Descent Phases
Before FMC U10.7, the vertical deviation (VDEV) was not shown in the descent modes if the airplane was upstream of the calculated top of descent waypoint. With U10.7, the Path Pointer for Vertical Navigation (VNAV) and Deviation Scale on the ND are shown in all descent phases and at the start of the descent modes.

5. Revised Lateral ANP Calculation
Before FMC version U10.7, the left FMC and the right FMC could give different ANP values. This was caused when the two FMCs start to calculate the ANP at different times with different position data. Operators have sent reports that landings were aborted in low RNP approaches because of the ANP differences. In FMC U10.7, the two FMC's will continue to calculate values independently for ANP. The two FMCs will compare their calculated ANP values and the larger value will show on the display.

6. Revised Vertical ANP Calculation
The vertical ANP that was calculated in FMC U10.6 with data that could have been too conservative. Some in-service vertical RNP alerts could have been the result of how vertical ANP was calculated. With FMC U10.7, the ANP is calculated with Mach to get a more accurate ANP. Analysis shows that the result of the new formula to calculate ANP is that vertical RNP alerts for operations at vertical RNP of 200 feet or less have gone down.

7. Waypoint Speed Constraint Enhancements
The FMC versions through U10.6 showed speed limits on the LEGS page as "AT or BELOW". The Air Traffic Control (ATC) gives a speed and the airplane must keep that speed. The FMC could only make sure that the airplane did not go more than that speed. VNAV holds the applicable speed for the vertical path and makes sure that it is not more than the limit set for the route. The flight crew had two alternatives to hold the speed (with the autothrottle on). It could use Speed Intervention, if that optional feature was enabled, or disconnect the autothrottle and keep the speed manually. FMC U10.7 lets a flight crew record a waypoint speed limit as "AT" (with no suffix), "AT-or-BELOW" ("B" suffix), or "AT-or-ABOVE" ("A" suffix). An "AT" speed limit is important to VNAV operations. It is most important in the terminal area. This feature will decrease the number of times that flight crews go above the ATC speed limits. Navigation Data Bases (NDB) do not give the "AT", "AT-or-BELOW", or "AT-or-ABOVE" qualifier for waypoint speed limits. When these qualifiers are included in the NDB, FMC U10.7 will use the waypoint speed limit. When the qualifier is not specified, FMC U10.7 will see the waypoint speed limit as an "AT" limit.

. VERIFY POSITION Message Enhancements
In FMC U10.6 and previous versions, the VERIFY POSITION scratchpad message told the crew of position data that did not agree. After the message displays, the flight crew identified the best source of position data and then made a decision about the applicable procedure. The VERIFY POSITION message set is expanded in version U10.7 of the FMC OPS. The identity of the position source that disagrees is shown on the display. The message changes help the flight crew identify the unreliable position source. This helps to decrease the flight crew workload. The new messages are better for RNP operations because the decision of the applicable procedure is easier for the flight crew when they know the error source.

9. RTA Accuracy Improvement
The Required Time of Arrival (RTA) was designed for enroute operations. RTA is a part of FMC U10.6 and previous FMC versions. RTA is intended to correct for differences between Estimated Time of Arrival (ETA) and RTA when the aircraft is approximately two hours from the RTA location. FMC U10.7 improves RTA accuracy by modifying the method and frequency of ETA updates, which provides better control to the RTA time in dynamic conditions such as winds and when in descent.

10. Geometric Path Descent:
FMC U10.7 and FMC U10.6 use calculated gradients to give the Geometric Path Descent. This is done for the full descent profile when the FULL mode is selected. The FULL mode is shown in the PERF FACTORS page on LSK 1L (GEO DES). The FULL mode is the default mode and cannot be changed to the APP mode unless the Loadable Defaults Data Base (LDDB) is programmed to allow the APP mode. With FMC U10.7, the LDDB can be programmed to select APP as the default mode. The APP mode uses calculated gradients only during approach and approach transition legs. Cold weather corrections for VNAV path construction are held during approach or approach transition phases. The APP mode uses a "stay high then dive" VNAV descent before approach or approach transition. Operators sent reports that U10.6 had a less than desired speed descent.This will help with that problem.

NOTE: The LDDB is an operator option that is supplied by Smiths Aerospace. To select APP as the default mode, operators must contact Smiths Aerospace to get a modification to their LDDB.

11. LOC Update Inhibit
Customers report that with FMC U10.6, an update to the localizer (LOC) can cause a lack of precision in the FMC position. This occurs when the localizer path is unreliable or the localizer course in the NDB is not accurate. Many facilities record localizer courses in 1.0 degree increments but updates in 0.1 degree increments are necessary for accurate FMC positions. As a result of this difference, the FMC position can be off. A logic change in FMC U10.7 will let LOC be disabled when the Global Position System (GPS) position receives an update. A prompt on the NAV OPTIONS page (4R - LOC UPDATE) will let the LOC update be manually enabled or disabled. The standard condition of the LOC UPDATE prompt is ON. The standard condition lets the same procedures be used for airplanes with GPS as airplanes without GPS.

FMC OPS has these additions.
1. GPS Loss Alerting

Two new messages at the alert level tell the flight crew when GPS data is not available for FMC position updates. When GPS data is not received by an FMC, a scratchpad message is displayed. The message indicates that position data is not available to the GPS-L or the GPS-R. These messages are an indication that there is a fault in the GPS system or that there is no data available. Data is not available if there is a problem with a GPS satellite system or the airplane is parked in a hangar and cannot receive satellite signals. This is the text of the new scratchpad messages:

1) GPS-L INVALID

2) GPS-R INVALID

When the airplane is on the ground, the FMC displays the INVALID message after approximately ten minutes with no valid GPS data. When the airplane is in the air, the FMC displays the message about 30 seconds without valid GPS data. The FMC continues to monitor the GPS data after the display of the Loss Alert message. The message is cleared after valid GPS data is received. The notification of loss of GPS position data, and possible decreased navigational precision supports the RNP procedures.

2. Leading Edge Device for Target Speed Limiting
FMC U10.7 changes the limit on the FMC target speed to 230 kts or less, unless the leading edge flaps are fully retracted. This change is to help make sure that the airplane will not accidentally go above the flap placard speed. This feature requires CDS Block Point 06 and Autopilot P4.0.

3. VNAV Armed Before Takeoff
Version U10.7 of the FMC lets the flight crew arm VNAV before takeoff. An equivalent feature is available on 747-400 and 777. VNAV automatically engages at 400 feet above ground level (AGL) if it is armed before the start of the takeoff roll. The VNAV speed target is 20 knots more than the last value set on the Mode Control Panel (MCP), until the airplane gets to the Acceleration Height. In version U10.7, the engine out VNAV speed target is calculated the same as the Flight Control Computer calculates for the takeoff mode speed. The Acceleration Height for normal and engine-out conditions is 1000 feet, but can be temporarily changed by the flight crew. This feature requires CDS Block Point 06 and Autopilot P4.0.

Has this support for optional feature.

1. Available Option 3461C739A01, "Flight Management Computer System (FMCS) - Takeoff Thrust

Automatic Selection - Enable"
The above Available Option enables the FMC to automatically select an appropriate Takeoff Thrust Rating based on Airline policy. Airport and runway data can be manually entered by the flight crew or data linked to the FMC via ACARS. FMC Operational Program Configuration (OPC) software is used to activate this feature. FMC U10.7 is required. The Airline Policy parameters are included in the Loadable Defaults Data Base (LDDB).

Smiths Aerospace provides the customized LDDB that is installed after airplane delivery. "

So you see Jorg we have much work to do in this area? Yes. Many changes. The problem is that people may ask "we demand that you create a patch for FS9" but the answer is "not possible". Too much work for free. When we complete 10.7 adjustments then we will make new aircraft parts as UPGRADE to 10.7 but for a price to pay for flying at the leading edge.


If the BBJ V3 on the red line reaches the green T/D point, the airplane begins to sink.
The airplane sinks unchecked.
No. The airplane MUST sink on reaching T/D. Its the common requirement. It is no fault or error at all. Please see or read the technical evaluation on REAL Boeing manual.

This is what the FMC Users Guise states:

"VNAV or LVL CHG will place the throttels at idle in descent. A "point in space" is calculated (one point Jorg - not many) where the airlplance can begin a long glide to a waypoint (not every waypoint) down the route that contains an alt restriction. The Smiths FMC logic can create this accurately however the 3-4-5 classic is better at this than the Next Gen 600-900. If a high speed descent is initiaited then VNAV DISCONNECT can occur etc."

It is not logical to assume or expect the aircraft to do what you say it must do.

Also:

The idle throttle descent works best where there si no ATC interference.

All statements about the height of the way-points remain ignored. The BBJ sinks and sinks without keeping an eye on the FMC statements of the way-points.
Example:
it should be reached 7250 f. At this point, however, the BBJ had already 4100ft. That is too fast!
No. The points are PREDICTIONS not ACTUAL. Each point is not a point to reach on the flight but a predicition of the points to reach.

Speed:
250kt with FL100, it is not kept to.
Descent is a different requirement. When the airplane follows the descent path analysis of the descent is checked by the FMC but the waypoints it reaches or passes through are FLY PAST or FLY OVER waypoints but not specific to ALT or SPD. The final approach fix (FAF) is the calculation the FMC makes for.

We do not thread a needle linking all of the points in the descent (and note please, that you cannot demand perfection yet. Much work to be done in this project!!! Rome was not built in one day my friend!
The BBJ V3 gets to become slower the command only with achievement of the FL100. 250kt then are reached with 7800ft.
IL'S signal is pursued very well. (Super)
Landing is not still good.
I land with 139kt. (17 percent of fuel)
The airplane reaches the runway. Touch. Then, the airplane pulls up automatically. A/T "actively" remains and AP remains active.
No. YOU must turn OFF the AP. It is NOT, repeat NOT automatic turn OFF. Never.

I ask you to control this.
And I tell you I did many months ago we made this. We did correct it and it works OK. 100%. I flew it and no problem. You are the Captain. Something you do is wrong with respect to your flying. You want me to send a video? I can make many of these videos to prove this landing is excellent. I performed many AUTOLAND with no problem on tests into Seattle. No problem at all.

Now, I must aks you waht your landing speed is set to?
What is your final approach speed from the FAF to line up with the ILS/GS?
What is your speed set to flaps setting?

This is important for the answers to you.

Here I send you pictures. Sorry but the screens 'cut out' my displays due to me having pop up windows ON.

But note that the AT disconnects around 4 seconds after landing. BOEING PERFECT!!!
But the AP Jorg? It is YOU that must disconnect this. Real pilots make the same decision!
The SP2 has only one success:
Pause the speed 250kt under FL100.
I would write you gladly better news. unfortunately, I can't this.
Yes. I think you can say its better. Your opinion is based on wrong information. We have many success in the SP2. You must make more flights and make adjustments.
I would be happy if this BBJ V3 corrects you further.
I cannot correct what is already perfect Jorg. What must be corrected is pilot error. Now I have a problem. Because what is beginning to happen is partly instuction/training for you and partly it is you saying "it is wrong" aqnd you are not qualified to know why. How can I tell you in German? Translation is difficult and for you to udnerstand me in emails is impossible. We cannot see each other face to face and you cannot see me smiling!!! Its not a good way but all I can do is my best to help you. But you must help yourself too.

I will look again and the flights and see what the airplane does in descent and note if possible, with videos.

To help me, please send me situation files that I can copy to FS and fly the same flight myself. Then we will see the adjustments and I can tell you.

Its OK? I think its a good dialogue.

Friendly greetings always.

Bob